The CBS News Confirmed team is fact checking the biggest claims made by Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz and Ohio Sen. JD Vance in tonight’s 2024 vice presidential debate in New York City.
CBS News is hosting the only planned vice presidential debate between Vance and Walz on Tuesday, Oct. 1, at 9 p.m. ET on CBS and CBS News 24/7. Download the free CBS News app for live coverage, post-debate analysis, comprehensive fact checks and more.
The debate moderators are “CBS Evening News” anchor and managing editor Norah O’Donnell and “Face the Nation” moderator and chief foreign affairs correspondent Margaret Brennan.
CBS News’ live coverage of the vice presidential debate can be found here.
True: Walz claims former Trump White House chief of staff John Kelly called Trump “the most flawed human being he ever met.”
Walz: “It’s those that were closest to Donald Trump that understand how dangerous he is when the world is this dangerous. His chief of staff, John Kelly, said that he was the most flawed human being he ever met.”
Details: John Kelly, a retired Marine general and former President Donald Trump’s chief of staff, told those close to him in 2020 that Trump “is the most flawed person” he’s ever known, according to CNN.
Kelly confirmed to CNN several stories that leaked out of the Trump administration during his presidency, among them, Trump’s inflammatory comments about service members, calling them “losers” and “suckers.” Kelly said, “A person that thinks those who defend their country in uniform, or are shot down or seriously wounded in combat, or spend years being tortured as POWs are all ‘suckers’ because ‘there is nothing in it for them.'”
Trump denies making the comments.
By James LaPorta
Partially true: Walz claims “the last 12 months saw the largest decrease in opioid deaths in our nation’s history — 30% decrease in Ohio.”
Walz: “This is a crisis is — the opioid crisis. And the good news on this is the last 12 months saw the largest decrease in opioid deaths in our nation’s history. 30% decrease in Ohio.
Details: Opioid deaths have fallen to the lowest levels in three years, provisional Centers for Disease Control and Prevention figures suggest, marking the first major decrease on record since deaths first began being tallied this way in 2015.
The CDC estimates that 77,461 deaths linked to opioids like heroin and fentanyl occurred in the year ending March 2024, down 7% from a year before nationwide.
The agency estimates 3,462 opioid deaths occurred in March 2024 — and for just Ohio, down 18% from March 2023.
By Alexander Tin
False: Vance says Vice President Harris “became the appointed border czar”
Details: Vice President Kamala Harris was not asked to be the administration’s “border czar” or to oversee immigration policy and enforcement at the U.S.-Mexico border. That has mainly been the responsibility of Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas and his department, which oversees the country’s main three immigration agencies, including Customs and Border Protection.
President Biden tasked Harris with leading the administration’s diplomatic campaign to address the “root causes” of migration from Guatemala, Honduras and El Salvador, including poverty, corruption and violence. The region, known as Central America’s Northern Triangle, has been one of the main sources of migration to the U.S.-Mexico border over the past decade.
In reality, the only role close to that of a “border czar” under the Biden administration was held for only a few months by Roberta Jacobson, a longtime diplomat who served as coordinator for the Southwest border until April 2021.
By Camilo Montoya-Galvez
Partially true, needs context: Vance claims housing unaffordable because “millions of illegal immigrants … compete with Americans for scarce homes.”
Vance: “You’ve got housing that is totally unaffordable, because we have brought in millions of illegal immigrants to compete with Americans for scarce homes.”
Details: Research indicates that a growth in immigration under the Biden administration is one factor fueling housing demand. However, the housing shortage in the U.S. of an estimated 1.5 million to 7 million housing units has been a longstanding issue since the Great Recession, when the number of homes being built plummeted. Fewer new homes were built in the 10 years ending in 2018 than in any decade since the 1960s, according to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
By Laura Doan and Emma Li
Mostly true: Walz claims when Iranian missiles “did fall near U.S. troops and they received traumatic brain injuries, Donald Trump wrote it off as ‘headaches'”
Walz: “And when Iranian missiles did fall near U.S. troops, and they received traumatic brain injuries, Donald Trump wrote it off as headaches.”
Details: Iran carried out a missile strike on Iraq’s al-Asad air base on Jan. 8, 2020, days after the Trump administration ordered a lethal drone strike on IRGC commander Qassem Soleimani on Jan. 3, 2020, near Baghdad International Airport.
On Jan.17, U.S. Central Command said 11 service members were transported out of al-Asad after being screened for traumatic brain injury. Then-President Trump at first said there were no injuries related to the strike, then later referred to “headaches and a couple other things” that were later confirmed by the Pentagon to be incidents of traumatic brain injury. In the same remarks, on Jan. 22, 2020, he said he didn’t consider the injuries to be “serious.”
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says TBI is “a major cause of death and disability.”
By Olivia Gazis
False: Walz claimed he was in China during the Tiananmen Square protests
Walz: “All I said on this was, I got there that summer and misspoke on this. That is what I have said. So, I was in Hong Kong and China during the democracy protests, went in and from that I learned a lot of what needed to be in governance.”
Details: In 2014, then-Rep. Walz said he was in mainland China during the Tiananmen Square protests between April and June 1989 during a congressional hearing to mark 25 years since the massacre. According to a congressional transcript, Walz said, “As the events were unfolding, several of us went in. I still remember the train station in Hong Kong.”
Minnesota Public Radio first reported Walz’s exaggerated claims. A Chadron Record news report from April 1989 shows Walz would be leaving for China in August 1989. An Alliance Times-Herald news report from May 1989 shows then-Staff Sgt. Walz toured a Nebraska Army National Guard armory. The local news radio station also reported that in another Nebraska newspaper in August 1989, Walz said he would “leave Sunday en route to China.”
As Minnesota governor, Walz has made several educational trips to China dating back to the late 1980s. In 2016, Walz claimed to have traveled to China “about 30 times” but his campaign admitted to Minnesota Public Radio it was “closer to 15.”
By James LaPorta
True: Walz claims Vance has in the past said “there’s a climate problem” and that Trump called climate change “a hoax”
Walz: “Sen. Vance said there’s a climate problem in the past. Donald Trump called it a hoax and then joked that these things would make more beachfront property to be able to invest in.”
Details: Former President Donald Trump has described global warming or climate change as a “hoax” on multiple occasions. “The global warming hoax, it just never ends,” Trump said during a March 2022 speech in New Orleans, the Washington Post reported. “To which I say, great, we have more waterfront property.”
Prior to his election to the Senate, Vance said in a 2020 speech at Ohio State University, “We, of course, have a climate problem in our society.”
By Steve Reilly
Partially true: Walz claims patients had to pay $800 for insulin before passage of Inflation Reduction Act during Biden administration
Walz: “The $35 insulin is a good thing, but it costs $5 to make insulin. They were charging $800 to make it before that law went into effect.”
Details: A handful of researchers have tried to estimate the cost of different insulin medicines, coming up with production costs that often work out to single-digit costs for the monthly supplies of drug.
One published in January touted by Medecins Sans Frontieres estimated reusable pens of insulin could be competitively manufactured for as little as $96 a year – or $8 per month.
The Biden administration said the list price for a 30-day supply of Novo Nordisk’s insulin pen products, that it targeted for its Medicare Drug Price Negotiation Program, was $495 for a 30-day supply in prices set for 2023.
However, those list prices do not reflect myriad confidential markups and rebates that muddy the actual price that individual insurers and patients pay.
By Alexander Tin
Needs context: Walz claims Project 2025 makes it hard to get contraception and access to fertility treatments
Walz: “Their Project 2025 is going to have a registry of pregnancies. It’s going to make it more difficult, if not impossible, to get contraception, and limit access, if not eliminate access, to infertility treatments.”
Details: Project 2025 does not call for a registry of pregnancies.
However, it does call on state reporting of “how many abortions take place within its borders, at what gestational age of the child, for what reason, the mother’s state of residence, and by what method.” Project 2025 also calls on the Health and Human Services to use “every available tool, including the cutting of funds” to ensure this state reporting is conducted.
There would be measures included in the Project’s policies that could make it more difficult to access contraception.
Project 2025 calls for the restoration of “Trump religious and moral exemptions to the contraceptive mandate.” These exemptions allowed for “religious and moral exemptions and accommodations for coverage of certain preventive services under the ACA.”
By Jui Sarwate and John Kelly
False: Walz claims Trump hasn’t paid taxes in 15 years
Details: In 2022, a release of some of Donald Trump’s tax returns by the House Ways and Means Committee showed that he filed federal income tax returns for the years 2015 through 2020. According to the report, Trump paid $641,931 in federal income tax in 2015; $750 in both 2016 and 2017; and $133,445 in 2019. He paid no federal income tax in 2020, the report found.
Before becoming president in 2016, Trump declined to disclose his tax returns. A 2022 New York Times article reported that he had paid no income taxes in 10 of the 15 previous years.
By Alain Sherter
False: Vance claims prescription drugs are up about 7% under Biden, but under Trump, they went up just 1.5% over four years
Vance: “When Donald Trump was actually president, and again he has a record to be proud of, prescription drugs fell in 2018 for the first time in a very long time. Under Kamala Harris’ leadership, prescription drugs are up about 7%. Under Donald Trump’s entire four years, they were up about 1.5%.”
Details: The latest figures from the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality’s annual survey estimate that average expenditures per person on prescription drugs — among those who had spent money on prescriptions — had climbed to a mean of $2,820 in 2022, up from $2,549 in 2020. That’s an increase of 11%.
But by the same metric, average prescription drug prices per person climbed to $2,303 by 2019, up from $2,107 in 2017, an increase of 9% under Trump.
However, measured by a median instead of a mean, expenditures per person for prescription medicines, among people who paid for prescriptions, has largely declined under both the Trump and Biden administrations since 2018.
By Alexander Tin
Misleading: Vance claims DHS “has effectively lost” 320,000 children
Vance: “Right now in this country, Margaret, we have 320,000 children that the Department of Homeland Security has effectively lost. Some of them have been sex trafficked, some of them, hopefully, are at homes with their families. Some of them have been used as drug trafficking mules. The real family separation policy in this country is unfortunately Kamala Harris’ wide open southern border.”
Details: Vance is likely referring to a report released by the Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General in August. That report found that between fiscal years 2019 and 2023, roughly 32,000 unaccompanied children did not show up to their immigration court hearings.
That period includes parts of both the Trump and Biden administrations. The report also said U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement had not yet issued court notices to about 291,000 unaccompanied children as of May 2024.
Vance is likely adding the two numbers to argue that the federal government “effectively lost” hundreds of thousands of migrant children. But the statistics do not necessarily reflect missing children. And unlike the Trump administration and its “zero tolerance” border crackdown, the Biden administration has not implemented a policy to separate migrant children from their parents.
The DHS inspector general said children who do not attend their hearings can be at a higher risk of being trafficked or exploited, but immigrants can fail to show up to immigration court for a variety of reasons, including because the government does not have the correct addresses on file.
That ICE has not issued notices to appear to migrant children does not mean those minors are lost — either literally or in the system. It means they’ve yet to be placed in immigration court proceedings. ICE, after all, is not a child-welfare agency. The Department of Health and Humans Services is the agency responsible for caring for and housing migrant children who cross a U.S. border without their parents, and it does so until they are released to sponsors or turn 18.
In its response to the DHS inspector general’s report, ICE said one reason why the agency could delay issuing notices to appear to unaccompanied children is because they are, under American law, eligible to apply for asylum and legal status outside of the immigration court system.
By Camilo Montoya-Galvez
False: Vance claims Harris has not invested in clean air, clean water or climate policy
Vance: “If we actually care about getting cleaner air and cleaner water, the best thing to do is to double down and invest in American workers and the American people. And unfortunately, Kamala Harris has done exactly the opposite.”
Details: Under the Biden administration, $370 billion was made available for climate policy in the Inflation Reduction Act to spur American manufacturing in clean energy innovation, production and utilization. This is the largest amount of funding ever made available to generate domestic manufacturing for clean energy.
Beyond wind and solar, the policy provides money to expand nuclear energy, hydrogen technology, battery production and carbon capture technology. As CBS News has recently reported, more states are now investing in clean energy technology than ever, and it’s been red states that have seen higher investments and jobs in this sector than blue states.
By Tracy Wholf
True, needs context: Walz claims border “crossings down, compared to when Donald Trump left office”
Walz:”Look, crossings are down compared to when Donald Trump left office.”
Details: In August, migrant apprehensions along the U.S. southern border numbered 58,038, according to U.S. Customs and Border Protection data. When Trump left office in January 2021, migrant apprehensions along the U.S. southern border numbered 75,316 that month.
Illegal border crossings had been dropping steadily since the spring, and the decline accelerated after Mr. Biden issued a proclamation on June 4 that banned most migrants from seeking asylum at the U.S.-Mexico border. Harris has said she would keep Mr. Biden’s asylum crackdown in place if elected.
However, yearly apprehensions at the U.S. southern border reached record highs during Mr. Biden’s term, according to the data. In fiscal year 2023, the number reached 2.2 million. The number of yearly apprehensions under Trump peaked at around 852,000 in fiscal year 2019.
By Laura Doan and Camilo Montoya-Galvez
This article will be updated with additional fact checks as the debate continues.
